Defying institutional boundaries to innovation

What does social innovation mean to you?

Social innovation means all kinds of different things to me. The most important thing is that it is a framework and encouragement to think differently and in ways that don't always correspond to institutional norms or expectations. 

You’ve had a successful career in the social services sector - can you speak to some of the innovations and changes you’ve worked towards in child and youth care?

Before I say something about what I've done, I’ll mention that, while it's almost counterintuitive, the human services sector is not a ‘hotbed of innovation.’ Because the sector is set up very significantly through institutional forums, anything from child welfare organizations to shelters and schools, the sector struggles with innovation. 

If I were to characterize my work over the last decades, I would say it's always started with hearing from people, talking with the people we label as ‘clients’ and asking them how relevant we are in their lives. One of the first lessons I learned was that just about everybody who claims to be an expert on something is surprisingly not relevant in people's lives. I've worked hard to try and stay away from that label and understand myself, not as an expert at all, but as somebody who has resources, somebody who can have influence and access and, therefore, somebody who can operationalize or activate the interests of others.

In 2006 you joined the School of Child and Youth Care (CYC) and became Director of the School in 2014. Can you walk us through your time at Toronto Metropolitan and your role in driving change within CYC?

When I first joined the School of Child and Youth Care, before I became the director, I realized that our conversations about what we're doing in child and youth care were quite circular. We just talked about the same things over and over again with slight adjustments. Over the six and a half years that I led the school, one of my core priorities was to bring different people into the school, to make sure that our conversations don't just repeat themselves. With this, we were able to open up avenues to see the field quite differently and see activities that happen in communities as part of our field instead of closing it off. 

Since 2012, you and Dr. Melanie Panitch have worked closely in developing a social innovation infrastructure at Toronto Metropolitan University - including the creation of the Minor in Social Innovation. Can you tell us a bit more about the development of the Minor and what students taking social innovation courses can expect to learn?

I should first of all say that I've been involved in the Faculty of Community Services’ discussions on social innovation and entrepreneurship for many years, and I've been involved as a member of a two-person team, the other member being Melanie Panitch. Just about everything I've done has been done in tandem with Melanie. Melanie and I have very different backgrounds and positions in the world. Yet, we've become like an old couple, bickering about the various aspects of the world - which makes for really excellent discussion!

One of the significant things we’ve worked on in the university is the Minor in Social Innovation. The minor allows students to explore the world outside of the disciplinary orientations. In this, we've recruited people from the world of art, policy, disability and so on. We have also offered certificate-based sessions for people to participate in and learn academically and more practically. 

This summer,  you were appointed the John C. Eaton Chair in Social Innovation and Entrepreneurship. Are you able to tell us a bit more about the role? What are some goals you have in starting this new appointment?

It’s important to note that I'm not just the chair for social innovation; the title is social innovation and entrepreneurship, a hard sell in community services and any sort of social justice-oriented setting. Entrepreneurship, in and of itself, is neither good nor bad. It's all contextual and contingent, so we've been able to do things that we otherwise would never have done, such as running graduate courses with MBA students and CYC students as a group. We've been able to do some of those things, just by letting go of some of the perceived expectations of someone interested in social justice.

My goal is to create a home for the ideas that don't fit anywhere or for the conversations nobody wants to have. That's the joy of the position; I have no boundaries - anything is a part of my portfolio! The key requirement is being excited about something. As long as somebody is excited about something, I'm happy to engage with it.

Last year you launched the Social Innovation for Social Justice (SI4SJ) program. How was the idea for the SI4SJ program ‘sparked’?

About four years ago, there was an announcement that Toronto Metropolitan had a campus space in New York City. When I read that, I thought, this is another sign that while the university talks a good game about the social context of innovation, ultimately, the investments are going in the direction of something that is not that socially oriented, and certainly not social justice-oriented. Melanie and I had a good conversation about that. We decided to go to the president and the provost and asked them to support us in developing a social innovation project related to New York City.

The project became working with students to embed ourselves in the social context in New York City and be observant about what we're experiencing. By becoming present in social sector-oriented spaces in New York City, we can learn a lot about what is possible if we defy the “Toronto imagination.” Both in terms of the aesthetics of different spaces that are designed to support people in New York City and the relationships, networks, and ways people are with one another. The project aimed to document that through photography and storytelling. The project evolved quite naturally and beautifully into what will be its outcome. I like to call it a “coffee table book,” which will essentially be a co-production of our 27 students who came from a variety of different schools and faculties. The book will be a co-production of the work those students did in observing and experiencing and then articulating how they made meaning of those experiences.

It's been a rounded experience for students and for us!

Were there any learnings or outcomes from SI4SJ that surprised you? How might they inform future programs of SI4SJ?

The greatest challenge was the project’s timeframe and the reality that people are incredibly busy, particularly our students and ourselves as faculty members. It's interesting because we are incredibly busy trying to fill up the learning of students. Still, we spend no time trying to free up students’ capacity to do other projects or have their own experiences outside of this.

What are some ways you’d like to see social innovation and social justice work further embedded into Toronto Metropolitan’s identity and curriculum?

At Toronto Metropolitan in particular, and especially at this time we have extensive discussions and we make also very sometimes not entirely well founded pronouncements about diversity, anti-racism, Truth and Reconciliation and actions in that respect that we don't quite live up to. I would like to begin to value and give material value to the incredible activities unfolding in both students and faculty in creating social change! We have people doing all kinds of work that finds no recognition, credit or confirmation. I think that has to change. 

I know from my own experience that participating in political demonstrations, for example, has taught me far more than any course in political science. Part of innovation is to think differently about what constitutes engaging your learning process. What should you be able to show when you get that degree from Toronto Metropolitan? That I understand the world and have a role within it. University is much more than taking 40 courses, and so that mentality has to change. Don't spend so much time creating awards for social justice warriors - give them course credit for their work! That will have a much more significant impact.