Season 2, Ep. 7: Is Japan turning into a migration state?
Show notes
Art & Documentary
Why Japan is abandoning its “zero immigration” policy (external link) . YouTube. Explained with Dom.
Popular Media
Gelin, M. (23 June 2020). Japan radically increased immigration—and no one protested (external link) . FP.
Harrison, S. & Sakudo, M. (25 August 2023). Japan needs more labour. Is immigration the Answer? (external link) Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada.
Take, S. (9 June 2023). Japan passes immigration reform bill: 4 things to know (external link) . Nikkei Asia.
Waseda University. (15 April 2020). Immigrant Japan: understanding modern Japan through the lives and minds of migrants (external link) . Phys.org.
Rehm, M. (11 November 2022). What will Japan’s great reopening mean for immigration policy? (external link) The Diplomat.
Reports and Policy Papers
Green, D. (28 March 2017). As its population ages, Japan quietly turns to immigration (external link) . Migration Policy Institute.
Kasia, T. (14 June 2023). Japan immigration law creates new obstacles for asylum seekers (external link) . Human Rights Watch.
Stokes, B. & Devlin, K. (12 November 2018). Perceptions of immigrants, immigration and emigration (external link) . Pew Research Centre.
Books
Douglass, M., & Roberts, G. S. (Eds.). (2003). Japan and global migration: Foreign workers and the advent of a multicultural society (external link) . University of Hawai’i Press.
Endō, T. (2022). Open borders, open society? Immigration and social integration in Japan (external link) . Verlag Barbara Budrich.
Liu-Farrer, G. (2020). Immigrant Japan: Mobility and belonging in an ethno-nationalist society (external link) . Cornell University Press.
Liu-Farrer, G. (2011). Labor migration from China to Japan: International students, transnational migrants (external link) . Routledge.
Michel, S., & Peng, I. (2017). Gender, migration, and the work of care: A multi-scalar approach to the Pacific Rim (external link) . Palgrave Macmillan.
Oishi, N. (2012a). (PDF file) Immigration and social integration in Japan (external link) . In International perspectives: Integration and inclusion (pp. 165–184). McGill-Queen’s University Press.
Weiner, M. (2013). Race and Migration in Imperial Japan (external link) (1st ed.). Routledge.
Scholarly Articles
Cheng, J. W., & Fraser, N. A. R. (2022). Japanese newspaper portrayals of refugees—A frame analysis from 1985 to 2017 (external link) . Journal of Refugee Studies, 35(3), 1364–1385.
Davison, J., & Peng, I. (2021). Views on immigration in Japan: Identities, interests, and pragmatic divergence (external link) . Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies, 47(11), 2578–2595.
Fraser, N. A. R., & Cheng, J. W. (2022). Do natives prefer white immigrants? Evidence from Japan (external link) . Ethnic and Racial Studies, 45(14), 2678–2704.
Fraser, N. A. R., & Murakami, G. (2022). The role of humanitarianism in shaping public attitudes toward refugees (external link) . Political Psychology, 43(2), 255–275.
Hayakawa, C. (2019). Japan’s recent dynamic developments in immigration law and policy (external link) . Revue de Droit Comparé Du Travail et de La Sécurité Sociale, 4, 92–103.
Hollifield, J. F., & Orlando Sharpe, M. (2017). Japan as an ‘Emerging Migration State.’ (external link) International Relations of the Asia-Pacific, 17(3), 371–400.
Kalicki, K., Murakami, G., & Fraser, N. A. R. (2013). The difference that security makes: The politics of citizenship in postwar Japan in a comparative perspective (external link) . Social Science Japan Journal, 16(2), 211–234.
Kotsubo, M., & Nakaya, T. (2023). Trends in internal migration in Japan, 2012–2020: The impact of the COVID‐19 pandemic (external link) . Population, Space and Place, 29(4), e34.
Michel, S., & Peng, I. (2012). All in the family? Migrants, nationhood, and care regimes in Asia and North America (external link) . Journal of European Social Policy, 22(4), 406–418.
Oishi, N. (1995). Training or employment? Japanese immigration policy in dilemma (external link) . Asian and Pacific Migration Journal, 4(2–3), 367–385.
Oishi, N. (2012b). The limits of immigration policies: The challenges of highly skilled migration in Japan (external link) . American Behavioral Scientist, 56(8), 1080–1100.
Oishi, N. (2014a). Introduction: Highly skilled migration in Asia and the Pacific (external link) . Asian and Pacific Migration Journal, 23(4), 365–373.
Oishi, N. (2014b). Redefining the “highly skilled”: The points-based system for highly skilled foreign professionals in Japan (external link) . Asian and Pacific Migration Journal, 23(4), 421–450.
Oishi, N. (2021). Skilled or unskilled?: The reconfiguration of migration policies in Japan (external link) . Journal of Ethnic and Migration Studies, 47(10), 2252–2269.
Peng, I. (2005). The new politics of the welfare state in a developmental context: Explaining the 1990s social care expansion in Japan (external link) . In H. Kwon (Ed.), Transforming the Developmental Welfare State in East Asia (pp. 73–97). Palgrave Macmillan UK.
Peng, I. (2012). Social and political economy of care in Japan and South Korea (external link) . International Journal of Sociology and Social Policy, 32(11/12), 636–649.
Peng, I. (2014). The social protection floor and the ‘new’ social investment policies in Japan and South Korea (external link) . Global Social Policy, 14(3), 389–405.
Peng, I. (2016a). Testing the limits of welfare state changes: The slow‐moving immigration policy reform in Japan (external link) . Social Policy & Administration, 50(2), 278–295.
Peng, I. (2016b). Testing the limits of welfare state changes: The slow‐moving immigration policy reform in Japan (external link) . Social Policy & Administration, 50(2), 278–295.
Peng, I. (2018). Shaping and reshaping care and migration in East and Southeast Asia (external link) . Critical Sociology, 44(7–8), 1117–1132.
Shioji, E. (2001). Composition effect of migration and regional growth in Japan (external link) . Journal of the Japanese and International Economies, 15(1), 29–49.
Transcript
Maggie Perzyna
Before we dive into today's episode, I just wanted to let you know about a podcast that we've been listening to here at CERC Migration, 'The Migration Podcast', produced by our good friends at IMISCOE. There's four seasons of interviews with leading scholars exploring the latest in migration and mobility research globally. If you want a deeper dive into the world of migration, the latest theory and research, I recommend you check out 'The Migration Podcast'. You'll find it on all the major platforms. Now on to our show.
Welcome to Borders & Belonging, a podcast that explores regional migration issues in a global context. This series is produced by CERC Migration in collaboration with Lead Podcasting. I'm Maggie Perzyna, a researcher with the Canada Excellence Research Chair in Migration and Integration program at Toronto Metropolitan University. Today, we're delving into Japan's evolving stance on immigration and exploring the shifting dynamics of migration to the country. Despite Japan's historical reputation for being socially, politically, and legally closed off to immigrants, recent developments indicate a gradual shift towards adopting a more comprehensive national immigration policy. We examine the innovative policies that are at the forefront of this transformation. And we consider their potential to bring about significant changes in Japanese society. In a moment, I'll be joined by two esteemed researchers to unpack the complexities of Japan's emerging role as a migration state. But first, we'll hear from someone who spent a significant amount of time working with refugees in Japan, before also entering the world of academia. Nicholas A. R. Fraser. Nicholas first went to Japan from 2005 to 2006, to teach English. He lived in Ogaki, a city close to a manufacturing hub, and home to immigrant factory workers. Sadly, it didn't take Nicholas long to understand that at the time, some locals were suspicious of their immigrant neighbors.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
I was starting to make friends there, Japanese friends, and they would tell me, like avoid Brazilian people. And, you know, at the time, I mean, I still think now that that was pretty racist for them to say that. And, you know, it was a small town, and their impression was, you know, all these people are coming in and, yes, they're working jobs. They're not just criminals, but we don't trust them. And you know, we think maybe they might steal, and they might do this or that. And so just avoid them.
Maggie Perzyna
Nicholas did not heed his new friends’ advice. He talked to fellow immigrants, whenever the opportunity arose. They played soccer, sometimes. He knew that the stereotypes they were sharing simply weren't true. And while he disagreed with what some of his new friends were telling him, he understood the context within which the comments were being made.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
Unlike Canada, where you know, you grew up, like seeing immigrant communities around, it's just, it's just a part of life. Imagine you've never seen that. Everyone you've grown up with looks like you, talks like you, is from your town, or locality or whatever. You know, everyone knows everyone. And then all of a sudden, these outsiders come. And they speak differently. They look differently. They act differently. And they're not necessarily breaking any laws. They're not necessarily causing any social problems, but that tends to make some people nervous. Nicholas went back to Canada for a few years. But that experience and those comments, always stayed in the back of his mind. So, when he returned to Japan in 2010, he decided to volunteer for an NGO dedicated to helping asylum seekers, the Japan Association for Refugees, also known as JAR. I started volunteering for them once a week and every day, we'd get calls from people who, you know, weren't sure what their options were. They didn't necessarily have legal status. People in all kinds of difficult situations, you would encounter on a daily basis, and they'd be from all over the world. And hearing the stories of these people or even being a fly on the wall in that office was heartbreaking because every day, every day, you heard stories of people who it seemed like we're falling through the cracks.
Maggie Perzyna
The people seeking support at JAR, weren't alone in their frustration with the immigration system. Many service providers, lawyers and activists shared their despair. But at the time, Nicholas says, the status quo felt insurmountable to most.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
A lot of people were jaded. I don't think we can change the system. Most people in Japan don't care about immigrants, they don't care about refugees, the politicians don't care, the system will never change. And it was very hard and very sobering to work for them.
Maggie Perzyna
While the precarity that many refugees and asylum seekers experienced was dire at times, nothing could prepare them or the rest of the country for the triple disasters on March 11th, 2011. That's when the largest earthquake ever recorded in Japan's history occurred in the Tohoku region. It caused a tsunami, as well as the meltdown of three nuclear reactors. The catastrophes killed over 18,000 people and displaced 100,000s more. As the whole country reeled from the horrors of the disaster, Nicholas witnessed something unexpected unfold.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
What most people are not aware of, especially mainstream Japanese society is that our offices during that two to three day period, when you know, people just couldn't go to work or whatever, because of the disruption from the earthquake, the phones are ringing off the hook. And a lot of the calls were coming from people who had already got into Japan who, some of them didn't even have legal status in Japan but the message was consistently, Japan needs our help. Japan took us in when no one else would. So, we want to help Japan. And it was surprising because some of these people, again, had pending refugee claims, right? They could have been deported within weeks. And yet, they were willing to put everything on the line and try to help Japan.
Maggie Perzyna
A few months after the earthquake and tsunami, Nicholas met with local friends to catch up. And he told them about the disaster relief work he had been doing with JAR.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
And then I told them that a lot of the people that were involved were actually immigrants and refugees, including people without status. I remember this vividly. One of them looked at me and started tearing up and hugged me. And they were like, wow, foreigners care about this country? And I said, yeah. And so, then they asked, well tell me, what are these people been going through? Why are they in Japan? Are they here to work? You know, what's going on? And so, I explained, no, these people are refugees, and I explained what that meant. And then I told them about, you know, Japan's very low asylum recognition rate. In other words, Japan's policy of rejecting over 99% of the asylum applications that are filed in Japan. And they were surprised, and they're like, wow, like, but we're a rich country. And then they started saying, well you know, we've been refugees recently too. You know with Tohoku. Like, we know what it's like to be refugees, you know. We should take more of these people in. To have this conversation with them, where they basically told me like, yeah, like, I think this policy is stupid, we should take in more refugees. And it sounds like immigrants and refugees are contributing to this country and if that's the case, then great, we want more. It just totally ran against the narrative I was hearing from for even people I worked with a JAR, right? This idea that it's never going to change because most people just don't want this. And it's this colossal thing. We just can't touch it. So, that was, you know, powerful for me because after that I thought, you know, maybe I should look into that more.
Maggie Perzyna
It would be an understatement to say that Nicholas has looked into this more. Since 2011 he's researched shifting immigration attitudes in Japan. And what he's found thus far has been very encouraging.
Nicholas A. R. Fraser
Probably the most exciting research that I've done recently, is I've done some polls that ask people, "would you support hosting immigrants", broadly? Like, "do you think immigrants add to our society? Do they contribute to our society". In terms of helping the economy, dealing with demographic decline, these kinds of things? We ran the poll three times. Three surveys, one in 2019, one in 2021, and one in this past year. We found consistently, attitudes are moving in a positive direction, regardless of the argument you make, people in Japan seem to agree now that yes, actually, immigration is a good thing.
Maggie Perzyna
Many thanks to Nicholas A. R. Fraser for sharing his experiences and learnings with us. To help me better understand whether Japan is moving towards becoming a migration state and what that means for Japanese society, are professors Nana Oishi and Ito Peng. Dr. Oishi is an associate professor in Japanese Studies at the University of Melbourne and a former policy analyst at the International Labour Organization in Geneva. Dr. Ito Peng is a professor of sociology and public policy and the director of the Center for Global Social Policy at the University of Toronto. She is also the Canada Research Chair in Global Social Policy. Thank you both for joining me today.
Dr. Ito Peng
Thank you for your invitation.
Dr. Nana Oishi
Thank you for having me.
Maggie Perzyna
Let's start with a bit of context. Can you give me an idea of Japan's historical approach to immigration and its reputation for being closed off to newcomers? Professor Peng let's start with you.
Dr. Ito Peng
Yeah, I think unlike Canada, Japan is, well not very open in terms of its acceptance of immigrants. In fact, I think historically, Japan has really resisted immigration. I think largely because of its concerns over the preservation of the country's racial, ethnic and cultural homogeneity, even though I think Japan is in fact, a pretty culturally and ethnically diverse country. But there has been always this myth that it's racially, ethnically, and culturally homogeneous. I think in addition to this collective imaginary about the homogeneity, I think politically there is a small but very vocal segment of people in the main political party, LDP, that's the Liberal Democratic Party, their electoral base, that are quite anti-immigrant. Adding these two things together, I think Japan has always resisted accepting migrants and immigrants. But I just wanted to say that, so I'm coming from the policy perspective. Since the 1990s, the Japanese government and Japanese people realize that its population was getting old very rapidly, partly because of its very low fertility rate. So, instead of considering immigration as a potential channel, to address their demographic aging issues, I think that government has decided to implement more pronatalist, pro-women policies, trying to address the labor shortages and the low fertility. So, the Japanese government introduced, in fact, the Japanese government has introduced some pretty progressive policies in its effort to raise fertility rates, including things like a variety of work, family reconciliation measures, like maternity leaves, parental leaves, family allowances, and universal childcare. And at the same time, they also tried to increase women's employment by introducing more flexible work and encouraging part-time work for women with care responsibilities. But neither of these policies have actually resulted in increasing the total fertility rate. So, they seem to have been not successful. Since the 1990s, the total fertility rate of Japanese women has stayed around what, 1.4? Which is well below their replacement rate.
Dr. Nana Oishi
So, I pretty much agree with what Professor Peng said just now. And I would like to add a few little things. Overall, Japan definitely has an image of being a closed country and a homogeneous country and so forth. Even though it's in reality it's quite ethnically diverse. At the same time when you look at the data and policy, you realize that the reality is a little bit different. For example, when you look at the policies for skilled migrants, Japan was actually one of the most open countries, given that there is no shortage skills list. For example, the Australian government has, or any governments have, and also there is no labor market test. So, the employers didn't really have to show that there was a skill shortage, and they couldn't really get the applicants from among local people. So, there are some areas in which policies have been open to migration. On this one thing and another thing is that actually the number of migrants coming into Japan has been rising quite rapidly. And the latest data show that there are 3.2 million migrants living in Japan, which is still 2.5% of the population. But both the number and the percentage have been rising quite rapidly. And before COVID, Japan accepted almost 600,000 migrants a year, which is a lot and the number dropped during COVID, obviously, but it has been rising again after the border restrictions were removed in 2022. And then LDP is also actually quite divided into two segments. And the one is definitely anti-migrants, as Professor Peng just said. The other part is, is trying to push migration much further. So, there has been a bit of sort of internal struggle within the LTP as well, that has been actually helping their recent policy change that have been brought up in 2019.
Dr. Ito Peng
I agree very much with Professor Oishi's point. I think what Professor Oishi, sort of raised is that there is formal policy side, and the actual practice side that are not in sync with each other. If you look at Japan's immigration policy, formal policy itself appears quite unopen to immigration. And by here, I mean by immigration, different from migration, in that I come from Canada, where immigration means taking in people with an understanding that they will eventually become permanent residents and Canadian citizens so that in terms of the policy, the formal policy appears quite closed, and yet in practice, you'll see a lot of migrant workers and a lot of people coming into Japan.
Maggie Perzyna
Right, so in the three decades between 1980 and 2019, Japan's foreign resident population nearly quadrupled. What recent policy shifts indicate that Japan is moving towards opening the country to more immigration and economic migration?
Dr. Ito Peng
I think as an alternative to sort of taking immigrants as we know, in Canada, I think Japanese approach to labour shortage, aside from trying to increase from women's labour force participation, I think has been to bring in more temporary migrant workers, particularly in the low wage, precarious employment sectors. Or, you know, what they call the '3-k work', "kitanai, kiken, kitsui" (汚い, 危険, きつい). I think the English translation might be something similar to '3-d work'. Meaning dirty, dangerous and demeaning kind of work. So, many temporary migrant workers were brought in to work in areas like construction, cleaning, agricultural and service sectors, sometimes under temporary, temporary worker visa, or under foreign trainees’ visa. So, this quadrupling of the foreign resident population is in large part a result of this large intake of foreign temporary migrant workers. I mean, you could say that, yeah, Japan is opening up to more foreign workers, but I'm not sure if they are all that open to immigration, in the way that we understand in Canada. This is because most of these foreign workers are not going to be given nor would they ever get permanent residency, maybe perhaps with the exception of a small group of professional or health or care-related workers who come in through the EPA, or economic partnership agreement system. I guess, again, I think it goes back to maybe Professor Oishi’s point, that to me the formal immigration policy in Japan is to me, quite closed. Even though in practice, there are a lot of foreign workers coming into the country. I think in my perspective, these are largely temporary migrant workers. And so, it is not a kind of long-term immigration, sort of, I can't see Japan, us moving towards opening the country to longer-term immigration or immigrants.
Maggie Perzyna
Professor Oishi, your studies have analyzed how some of the major shifts in Japan's migration policies have been introduced through the redefinition of skills and skilled migrants. Can you explain what you mean?
Dr. Nana Oishi
Okay, the Japanese government has always kept the policy of not accepting unskilled migrants or semi-skilled migrants in the sectors such as agriculture and construction and so forth. But there have been a huge labour demand in these sectors. But because of this policy, they accepted migrants as 'foreign trainees', as Professors Peng just said, so they didn't accept them as workers per se. However, this trainee scheme had long been criticized as very exploitative, and the US State Department, for example, warned that some of these trainees were even considered as labour trafficking victims. So, as the demand for migrants continued to increase in these areas, the government had to take some kind of action. So, they decided to change the immigration law and then redefine the migrants with these sectors as specific skilled workers and created a new visa category for them. So, after this change, migrants can work in the sectors now previously defined as 'unskilled' or 'semi-skilled', not as foreign trainees but as workers.
Maggie Perzyna
Professor Peng, what factors have prompted Japan to change its stance on immigration?
Dr. Ito Peng
I think some main factors that sort of made Japan to change its stance on immigration is the low fertility and aging population, or more like aged population. Its population has not only as, currently something like, you know, close to 30% of the Japanese population over the age of 65. But Japan's population has actually began to decline in total numbers since 2007. And at the same time, Japan has been facing a steady shrinkage of its labour force. So, if it wants to sustain or grow its economy, it will simply need more working age population. So, I think that's what's compelling Japan to take in, more foreign workers, which means it need to tweak its immigration, or migration policies. So, having said this, as I said earlier, I think Japan is still pretty resistant to be completely open about its immigration intake. I totally understand what Professor Oishi is talking about, and it has sort of began to rethink its worker intakes and begin to rethink about the skill levels. But it is still largely focused on using the existing channel to bring in more temporary migrant workers rather than seriously considering opening up the immigration. By this, I mean, you know, bringing in people and families who will become permanent residents, and maybe even become Japanese citizens. I guess by immigration, I am thinking about the long-term residency and transitioning to citizenship. I refer to migration policy as sort of temporary migrant workers.
Maggie Perzyna
Professor Oishi what would do you think?
Dr. Nana Oishi
I basically agree with Professor Peng about the overall trend that Japan is still primarily relying on the temporary migrants, for sure. At the same time, I think there have been changes in the actual policies in the last few years. I might call it like quite significant changes. Which means that, for example, even for migrants who hold a specific skilled-worker visa in, you know, agriculture, construction and so forth, in 11 areas, after they work for five years and pass a skill test, they can stay in Japan permanently and bring their family over, as long as they stay in the same industry. So, now the government is allowing family reunification for these workers like new skills-specified skilled workers, and so that they can stay with your family in Japan. When I was talking to many policymakers in Japan, they have shifted their focus from just accepting temporary migrants, to sort of encouraging them to stay on in Japan for a longer period of time. To what extent that will be successful, I'm not sure. But at least the government is realizing slowly that Japan really needs people, in a longer term. Not just relying on temporary migration schemes only. That wouldn't work. They are now aware of that. So, that's why these changes were introduced recently. But the question is rather, whether Japan could attract these people into these areas, because of the wages, which are relatively low, and you know, even emerging economies and even some developing countries, wages are rising. So, for me that is the big question. But overall, I think the Japanese government has been really shifting its policies in recent years.
Maggie Perzyna
So, as Japan is opening up a little bit in loosening its policies, what are some challenges that it faces on this journey to become a more immigrant friendly country? Professor Peng?
Dr. Ito Peng
I think probably there are two main challenges. I think first is the first challenge is the social norm, or this collective imaginary, or collective myths about Japan as being a racially, ethnically and culturally homogeneous society, or a homogeneous nation. I think it's this collective myth or collective imaginary that makes people fear for and weary of having immigrants in, because, you know it's scary to think that that a lot of immigrants coming in, might disrupt or wreck this idea of Japan as a homogeneous nation. But having said that, as Professor Oishi has mentioned, I think there's a sort of beginning of a bit of loosening of that thinking. People are beginning to rethink that collective imaginary. So, maybe over time, the social norms might change. The second, I think, big challenge is the anti-immigration politics. Governments up until now, governments tension and acquiescence to this anti-immigration lobby. Again, I think these anti-immigration voices, are not a large element of the sort of current government, but they are very vocal, and they are very loud. And so, they seem to have a fairly strong lobbying power. So, I think what the government has to deal with is really trying to address this tension from within its constituencies that are really resisting that rethink of the immigration policy.
Maggie Perzyna
Professor Oishi your research has found that despite its open and lenient policies for highly skilled migration, Japan has not been successful in attracting many professionals from overseas. Why do you think that is?
Dr. Nana Oishi
There are many reasons. The most important one is the salary level. As I said earlier, Japan salary levels for skilled workers are one of the lowest among industrialized countries. So, it is very difficult to attract skilled migrants from the first world nations such as Canada and Australia. The salary levels in other Asian countries are also rising too. So, Japan is kind of losing its competitive edge. So, that's the first reason why it's really difficult to attract professionals. And the second reason is the language. Most Japanese companies are still operating in the Japanese language only and they expect high language proficiency from migrants. And that's quite challenging for most people. And migrants do still come and work in Japan, but the majority of them work for only several years and go home or go elsewhere. And my interviewees said it was difficult to maintain a good work-life balance in Japan because working hours are too long. And people also find it challenging to raise children in that kind of environment. So, they leave Japan unfortunately. Another reason is that a lot of migrants feel that they will not be able to climb up the corporate ladder as they see little diversity in the management. Diversity is quite important when you are working in the workplace, right? Like when you look at, if the CEO or the board members are 100% Japanese males, then you feel like you won't be able to make it, right? Yeah, the women particularly feel that they are disadvantaged because of Japan's male dominated culture. So, they feel that they're doubly disadvantaged. Because they're women, and they're migrants. So, that kind of situation is also playing a role.
Maggie Perzyna
All of these policy changes must be impacting public attitudes towards immigration in Japan. Professor Peng, you've described a phenomenon called 'pragmatic divergence' in describing changing attitudes. Can you please explain what you mean by this?
Dr. Ito Peng
Sure. So, in our 2021 paper in the Journal of Ethnic & Migration Studies, we talked about the phenomena of what we call 'pragmatic diversions', in that many Japanese people we interviewed were, in fact, willing to consider actually more open immigration. So, we interviewed workers and employers, policy people involved in health and long-term care or elder care sectors in Japan and found that many people felt that in light of the labour shortage and low fertility and population decline, that Japan should be more open to immigration for our intake of foreign care workers. And some agricultural workers. Now these people who we interviewed were, you know, working with nurses and care workers from the Philippines and Indonesia, and other Southeast Asian countries, and also working with agricultural workers. And they felt that it made sense to give them - give some of them - permanent residency, and eventually even become Japanese citizens. So, what we found out in our research was that first, many people actually didn't know much about Japan's immigration policy. And when we asked them about immigration, as in considering taking in more workers and transitioning them to permanent residency, many of them were really surprised that there might be such possibilities. Then they raised the very common concern, such as, how it might disrupt Japan's ethnic and cultural homogeneity, that we hear a lot in the public discourse. But then, when it came to foreign nurses, and care workers, many of them were actually very positive about giving them permanent residency and eventually transitioning them to become Japanese citizens. So, these contradictory views, we found really, really interesting, because what this seems to suggest is that when we ask people in general about immigration, many of them will simply take this default position that reflected the dominant anti-immigration narrative. But they immediately deviated from that position when we asked them about foreign nurses and care workers. So, what it told us was that people could actually change their default position when there's a sufficiently large material benefit or personal imperative to do so. Because these people are saying, oh, these foreign care workers were really contributing a lot to our society, and we really need them. So, in a sense, these people who we interviewed were really quite open to taking in more foreign care workers and agricultural workers. In fact, given the labor shortages in the sectors, they thought the government should be more actively bringing in more of these workers. So that's the foreign nurses and care workers that come in through the economic partnership agreement. These people felt, the employers felt, that they were very important. They felt that the current system of having these workers come into the country work for three or four years and then have them write the Japanese licensing exam for nursing or for care worker for which many of them actually fail, largely because of the language issues. And therefore, once you fail, you get sent back to the sending countries. The employers felt very frustrated by this, many of them said, you know, you invest in these people for three to four years, providing them with training and experience and you lose them after four years because they simply couldn't pass that licensing exam in Japanese. They said that didn't make sense. So, they wanted a better system to retain them. And they thought one way to do this might be to provide them with longer term stay, or a permanent residency. So, many people also said that these people are really making important contributions to Japan and to Japanese people. So, by pragmatic diversions, what we meant was that people can actually hold very contradictory views about immigration, and that people can change their positions when there is a sufficiently large material benefit or personal imperative to do.
Maggie Perzyna
That's so interesting. Are there any cultural or societal shifts happening in Japan helping to integrate immigrants? Professor Oishi?
Dr. Nana Oishi
Yes, absolutely. When we look at various national polls and surveys, Japanese people's support for immigration has been increasing quite rapidly, particularly since 2019. Now in any polls, you look at between 60 to 70% of Japanese people support more migration and long-term settlements of migrants. It's a big change. And people are now fully aware that the Japanese economy cannot be sustained without migrants. So, when COVID-19 hit the country, the change became quite clear. So, first, when the COVID hit, there were very few COVID related violence against migrants in Japan. I was quite surprised, actually. In Australia, where I live, I felt actually quite scared to walk around the city since there are so many anti-Asian hate cases. And I talked to people in Japan, including migrants obviously, and they said they haven't heard or observed any hate cases. And I wouldn't say there was no case. And there must have been some, but the situation seemed quite, quite different from the situations in Australia or in other countries. Also, during the pandemic, there was extensive assistance for migrants. In Japan, as long as migrants are registered at the municipal governments, they could receive a financial package just as Japanese citizen. And not only that, in the small towns that I was doing fieldwork, migrants told me that the town official visited the house of every single migrant who had not applied for the Covid package. Because they wanted to make sure that no one would be left out. Yeah. The mayor also visited every single migrant entrepreneur because he knew that they were having difficulties. So, the mayor asked them, what kind of help they needed, et cetera. So, one migrant entrepreneur told me, "I was really impressed. And I really felt that it was part of the community." So, I was quite surprised by these comments that I received from migrants living in regional areas. So, I could see that things are changing slowly in Japan. I wouldn't say this was done in every single municipal area in Japan. I wouldn't say that. But I could see the sort of changing signs in the country.
Maggie Perzyna
Wow. What can other nations learn from Japan's experience in moving towards becoming a migration state? Professor Pang?
Dr. Ito Peng
I guess maybe they could learn. Well, maybe two ways. First, I think our studies show that immigration is actually a pretty natural and positive phenomenon, as Japan's case shows, without foreign workers, the Japanese economy will not be able to survive. And as its population continues to age and decline, Japan will need more foreign workers and immigrants to come and work in support its economy and its society and to care for its people. So, I think what other countries could learn from Japan's experience is that one way or another in the long term, immigration is actually pretty positive. And it is an important way for the society to sustain itself. I think the second thing many countries could learn, is that people's views and ideas are often pretty contradictory and fluid. Depending on what information people get, and how their contexts, their social reality and context change, people can actually change their mind and ideas about policies like immigration. So, from the point of view of the policy makers or NGOs or other social economic actors, I think, having good research, and providing people with information about how their society is changing, how immigration can contribute to society, and things like that, why it's so important to have diverse societies, diverse populations. This information and research can really help shape people's understandings and positions about immigration and other policies.
Dr. Nana Oishi
Japan is still obviously behind in many areas compared to traditional immigration countries like Canada and Australia. But there are two things that I think that we can learn from Japan. The first thing is that temporary migrants are actually quite well treated in Japan. It is partly because of the ways in which the municipal governance system is organized. But temporary migrants can also receive the same benefits that the permanent residents and citizens can get. The only condition is that they have a legal status. In many countries like Australia and Canada, temporary migrant workers and international students are excluded from various benefits such as public health care. Like in Ontario, for example, international students are not covered by OHIP [Ontario's health insurance scheme], temporary migrant workers are not covered. Same in Australia. In Japan, all migrants who stay in the country for more than three months are covered by the national health care insurance. The get child allowance, school tuition is free, and almost all benefits that they can enjoy, that are not actually available in Australia, in Canada. So, that's a big benefit for temporary migrants. I actually didn't realize that until I emigrated to Australia myself. So, I thought, wow, you know, temporary migrants in Japan are really well treated compared to, you know, those in other countries. Another point is that Japanese employers don't ask migrants for local work experience, which is the case in Australia, in Canada, often. If they like the applicants in Japan, they accept who they are, and they try to train them on the job. Japanese labour shortage level is so serious, that's why they are doing it, but not requiring local work experience is actually facilitating more migrants to come and work there. So, that's another thing that we can learn from the experience.
Maggie Perzyna
How do you see Japan's policy innovations affecting the country's future? Professor Oishi, how do you see Japan's policy innovations affecting the country's future?
Dr. Ito Peng
I think Japan's sort of traditional policy approach to immigration is probably not very sustainable or effective in the long run. But I also realize that there's been policy changes, that are going to make it more sustainable. The reason I say this is that I think the fertility rate in Japan is going to stay low. And the country will simply continue to age, and the population will decline. It's only taking in foreign workers that might address kind of immediate labour shortage concerns. But in the long run, you will really need to address chronic labour shortage and economic decline issues. So, for that reason, I think Japan will need much more active immigration policy. Not only to bring more workers in, but to bring in more people, people who will make Japan their home and have families in Japan. So, for that, what Japan needs to do is to make the country more attractive for people to want to come and stay. And for that it has to make the country a more attractive place where people want to be in and to build their future. And this means Japan needs to be more equal amongst themselves. Between genders, with both the native bone and the foreign-born people, it needs to be more inclusive, and I think it needs to be more diverse. I think that would be the key for Japan's sort of population and economic sustainability in the long run.
Dr. Nana Oishi
Yeah, actually, I'm so glad that Professor Peng mentioned all these things. Actually, I totally agree with her. And that's exactly actually, that's exactly what I told the government officials when I was sitting on the government policy committee on immigration in early 2010s. But at the time, when I said those things to the government officials at the time, it didn't really hit them. It didn't really hit them at the time. But then now they are really feeling that, yes, we need to be more attractive. And the discourses among the government officials have changed quite a bit for the last five years or so. I'm really glad that finally these officials are adopting a new policy and trying to attract more migrants to come and stay in the country. It was just a very positive development. But at the same time, I'm a bit worried that it came a little bit too late. I hope it won't be too late. But I'm still very concerned. Because now the yen is very weak, and the country's salaries are really low. And Japan may not be able to attract a sufficient number of migrants at this point. Particularly in the sectors like IT and healthcare. So, I'm quite worried about that. But at the same time, the positive thing is that a lot of policymakers are really driven to push more migration these days. So, for example, when you look at the 2021 budget, on multicultural services for migrants, Japan is actually allocating a lot more resources than the Australian Government. So, the Japanese government spent $167 million Canadian dollars - I actually converted to Canadian dollars recently, so that people can understand what it is like - iso in 2021, the Japanese government spent 167 million Canadian dollars on multicultural services for migrants, whereas the Australian government spent only 106 million Canadian dollars, given that migrants comprise only 2.5% of the population in Japan, and 33% in Australia. So, it shows how much commitment the Japanese government is making by doing this, to make the country a lot more attractive. I hope this push is going to change or bring a positive change to Japan. But at the same time, Japanese workplaces also have to change. Because as I said earlier, a lot of migrants leave because of the unfavourable working conditions, lack of work-life balance, very difficult situation in which they raise children, etc. So, a lot of migrants leave after several years. And the biggest challenge is that a lot of Japanese people also leave as well recently because of the same problems. The Japanese government has to tackle not just maintaining population by bringing migrants into the country, but it also has to tackle preventing, or motivating more Japanese people to stay in the country as well.
Maggie Perzyna
All right, well, thank you both. That was such an amazing conversation. I feel like I learned so much.
Dr. Ito Peng
I think this is a really wonderful conversation and I totally agree with Professor Oishi about Japan needs to work to make itself a much more attractive place for people. Not only to bring more immigrants in, but for Japanese people to lead the country. I think that's so important. I mean, I know I've been pretty critical about Japan, but part of me is also a sort of somewhat optimistic. I grew up in Japan. And then as an adult, I also went back to Japan to work. So, I really see a lot of really positive things about Japan. Professor Oishi said the Japanese government might be a little bit late in realizing what it needs to do. But I think once it realizes what it needs to do, I think it will do the right thing.
Maggie Perzyna
Thanks to Nana Oishi an Ito Peng for joining me today and thank you for listening. This is a CERC Migration podcast produced in collaboration with Lead Podcasting. If you enjoyed the episode, subscribe to Borders & Belonging on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more information on Japan's immigration policies, please visit the show notes. I'm Maggie Perzyna. Thanks for listening!